NerdCulture

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JdeBP<a href="https://wandering.shop/@cstross" class="u-url mention" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">@cstross</a> I enjoyed how spot-on you accidentally were. (-:Interestingly, people still argue today (as you've probably seen in these threads) as if it were van Smoorenburg rc that was the other choice for Debian et al. back in 2014; which was in reality either Upstart or OpenRC. It's a very persistent erroneous dichotomy.<a href="https://tty0.social/tags/systemd" class="mention hashtag" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">#systemd</a> <a href="https://tty0.social/tags/Upstart" class="mention hashtag" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">#Upstart</a> <a href="https://tty0.social/tags/OpenRC" class="mention hashtag" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">#OpenRC</a>

JdeBP<a href="https://wandering.shop/@cstross" class="u-url mention" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">@cstross</a> Right more than you know in one respect; but wrong in another.<a href="https://tty0.social/tags/systemd" class="mention hashtag" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">#systemd</a> came from <a href="https://tty0.social/tags/RedHat" class="mention hashtag" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">#RedHat</a>, not Microsoft; and the upstart was not Linux but a software package from <a href="https://tty0.social/tags/Canonical" class="mention hashtag" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">#Canonical</a> that was literally named "Upstart". (There's a whole backstory about the copyright licence that Canonical initially granted.)Amusingly, Windows NT's Service Controller, its WININIT, and its Session Manager are three distinct things; not like systemd's architecture at all.<a href="https://tty0.social/tags/Upstart" class="mention hashtag" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">#Upstart</a>

Kevin Karhan :verified:<a href="https://infosec.exchange/@nuintari" class="u-url mention" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">@nuintari</a> <a href="https://mastodon.bsd.cafe/@stefano" class="u-url mention" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">@stefano</a> no, it's not inherently bad because if <a href="https://infosec.space/tags/SysVinit" class="mention hashtag" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">#SysVinit</a> and all the.otherbthings were fine, noone would've even considered adoping <a href="https://infosec.space/tags/systemd" class="mention hashtag" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">#systemd</a>. <a href="https://infosec.space/@kkarhan/112660144122509736" translate="no" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">https://infosec.space/@kkarhan/112660144122509736</a>Claiming "it's <a href="https://infosec.space/tags/RHEL" class="mention hashtag" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">#RHEL</a>'s fault" also goes way too short, cuz they - like <a href="https://infosec.space/tags/SUSE" class="mention hashtag" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">#SUSE</a> and <a href="https://infosec.space/tags/Canonical" class="mention hashtag" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">#Canonical</a> - do weird stuff all the time.<ul><li>Unlike say <a href="https://infosec.space/tags/snap" class="mention hashtag" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">#snap</a> vs. <a href="https://infosec.space/tags/flatpak" class="mention hashtag" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">#flatpak</a>, there's a reason we have systemd and no say <a href="https://infosec.space/tags/upstart" class="mention hashtag" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">#upstart</a> being adopted.</li></ul>OFC you can get non-systemd distros and for <a href="https://infosec.space/tags/embedded" class="mention hashtag" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">#embedded</a> applications, the tradeoff of "space" vs. "complexity reconfiguring" stuff does make even a classic init script sufficient (i.e. some <a href="https://infosec.space/tags/InternetOfShit" class="mention hashtag" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">#InternetOfShit</a> device that isn't expected to constantly switch WiFi networks doesn't need a config more complex than the config txt from <a href="https://infosec.space/tags/RaspberryPiOS" class="mention hashtag" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">#RaspberryPiOS</a>)...

BC Info BotThe Tyee: Love Forests? Meet the Authors of ‘Canopy of Titans’ <a href="https://thetyee.ca/Presents/2023/10/11/Meet-Authors-Canopy-Titans/" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">https://thetyee.ca/Presents/2023/10/11/Meet-Authors-Canopy-Titans/</a> <a href="https://mastodon.roitsystems.ca/tags/bcnews" class="mention hashtag" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">#bcnews</a> <a href="https://mastodon.roitsystems.ca/tags/TheTyee" class="mention hashtag" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">#TheTyee</a> - via @tyee@mstdn.ca <a href="https://mastodon.roitsystems.ca/tags/CanopyofTitans" class="mention hashtag" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">#CanopyofTitans</a>:TheLifeandTimesoftheGreatNorthAmericanTemperateRainforest <a href="https://mastodon.roitsystems.ca/tags/northwesttemperaterainforest" class="mention hashtag" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">#northwesttemperaterainforest</a> <a href="https://mastodon.roitsystems.ca/tags/CarbonSequestration" class="mention hashtag" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">#CarbonSequestration</a> <a href="https://mastodon.roitsystems.ca/tags/MermaidTalesTofino" class="mention hashtag" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">#MermaidTalesTofino</a> <a href="https://mastodon.roitsystems.ca/tags/DominickDellaSala" class="mention hashtag" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">#DominickDellaSala</a> <a href="https://mastodon.roitsystems.ca/tags/old" class="mention hashtag" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">#old</a>-growthforests <a href="https://mastodon.roitsystems.ca/tags/ElizabethKolbert" class="mention hashtag" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">#ElizabethKolbert</a> <a href="https://mastodon.roitsystems.ca/tags/JessicaApplegate" class="mention hashtag" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">#JessicaApplegate</a> <a href="https://mastodon.roitsystems.ca/tags/J" class="mention hashtag" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">#J</a>.BooneKauffman <a href="https://mastodon.roitsystems.ca/tags/keystonespecies" class="mention hashtag" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">#keystonespecies</a> <a href="https://mastodon.roitsystems.ca/tags/PaulKoberstein" class="mention hashtag" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">#PaulKoberstein</a> <a href="https://mastodon.roitsystems.ca/tags/proforestation" class="mention hashtag" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">#proforestation</a> <a href="https://mastodon.roitsystems.ca/tags/Upstart" class="mention hashtag" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">#Upstart</a>&Crow <a href="https://mastodon.roitsystems.ca/tags/DavidGelles" class="mention hashtag" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">#DavidGelles</a>

Scott Williams 🐧<a href="https://tty0.social/@JdeBP" class="u-url mention" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">@JdeBP</a> <a href="https://fosstodon.org/@RL_Dane" class="u-url mention" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">@RL_Dane</a> <a href="https://oldbytes.space/@mos_8502" class="u-url mention" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">@mos_8502</a> Indeed, it very much didn't. And it's very useful context for <a href="https://mastodon.online/tags/systemd" class="mention hashtag" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">#systemd</a>. Seeing systemd as a replacement for <a href="https://mastodon.online/tags/upstart" class="mention hashtag" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">#upstart</a>, which had already broadly replaced SysInitV, makes much more sense of the situation. It's not like upstart was any less "corporate" or anything (Canonical, Red Hat, Google). It's that in practice, it was really not good at tracking processes and often couldn't be relied on.

JdeBP<a href="https://mastodon.online/@vwbusguy" class="u-url mention" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">@vwbusguy</a> <a href="https://fosstodon.org/@RL_Dane" class="u-url mention" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">@RL_Dane</a> <a href="https://oldbytes.space/@mos_8502" class="u-url mention" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">@mos_8502</a> There were such people, though. <a href="https://tty0.social/tags/upstart" class="mention hashtag" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">#upstart</a> was seen as the new event-driven way of the future, and there were people who promoted it as such. The Debian Technical Committee was almost evenly split, moreover.As I said in <a href="https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=19966762" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=19966762</a> , the event-driven notion didn't work out in practice.

Scott Williams 🐧<a href="https://tty0.social/@JdeBP" class="u-url mention" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">@JdeBP</a> <a href="https://fosstodon.org/@RL_Dane" class="u-url mention" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">@RL_Dane</a> <a href="https://oldbytes.space/@mos_8502" class="u-url mention" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">@mos_8502</a> It's also important to ask why the outrage for <a href="https://mastodon.online/tags/systemd" class="mention hashtag" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">#systemd</a> but not <a href="https://mastodon.online/tags/upstart" class="mention hashtag" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">#upstart</a> that had already replaced SysInitV in many <a href="https://mastodon.online/tags/Linux" class="mention hashtag" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">#Linux</a> distros, yet I never hear anyone arguing that upstart was better than systemd in any way.<a href="https://upstart.ubuntu.com/" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">https://upstart.ubuntu.com/</a>

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