ActivityPub is the new .com biz and/or new crypto ICO and/or new buzzword you can show people while keeping your actual project slightly out of view so that morons will think that it's amazing and The Future because it involves $technology which is Uniformly Good

The cold hard truth of it is that ActivityPub is bad for almost all use-cases, and not great for the exceptions

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@sir you can say that, but activitypub is a reasonable functional starting point and it gets us part of the way away from solely centralized services.

People and projects need to be encouraged ... Not dumped on for being less than perfect.

Besides, I'm a bit wary of posts which dump on things in such generalized terms as the ones you've used here.

@j1mc @sir Bad projects have been dumped on for half a century now, and it hasn't stopped them from being created. Individually speaking, you're right, creativity is something to encourage. However this is a protocol that *is intended to replace existing protocols*, it should at least _try_ to do something better, and I don't think holding it to a better standard than the things it's trying to succeed is actually at all a problem.
@j1mc @sir The fundamental question here is, how do you empower people but also let them know that they things they're doing are dogshit and unacceptable. And again, we can learn from Art. Art tutors /have/ to learn how to give positive criticism. My mother is an art teacher and has had to become very skilled in letting people know that they did something wrong, without actually destroying them, because a lot of her students are very, very sensitive -- you can't say things in a normal, blunt way at all.
@j1mc @sir The other problem is one of scale. Programmers feel like they're allowed to create things that Might Not Work because a) they don't value their craft and b) the worst case that they can think of is that it will segfault.

The first one is a problem with how the craft is obtained. You're not going to value something that you learned in a month at a bootcamp, you can't appreciate anything about the actual Craft of it at that level yet, because you haven't grown the lenses appropriate. People spend like, the entirety of their lives growing up seeing Good Art, so by the time they come to do artwork, they have a model of what's appropriate. When you start programming that's almost always the first time you've seen code, there isn't that run-up period that allows you to discern what is and isn't Good Code.

The second one is a problem with scale. The craft of programming is so removed from the effects, that you can't accurately understand what the effects will be. The solution here is teaching, and accountability. Civil Engineers know that if they build something that fails, people will very likely die, and they, personally, will be inspected. Programmers need to be taught that if they fuck up, not only will they caused a lot of stress (Which honestly, is underappreciated in our current Zeitgeist), and time-loss, but they will likely cause environmental damage (Because of the sheer fucking heat and power that are used and put out by server farms), and they can ruin people's lives (Bad notification times have social consequences on people's social groups and also mental state).

But teaching isn't enough. Because programming is most of the time used in building products, and the rotation period of employees is very short, not to mention that so many people touch a codebase during it's development, it's impossible to develop an accurate idea of what you should be accountable for. It's a firing squad mentality, where nobody knows if the bullet that they shot caused someone to die. You cannot have any sort of accountability in that environment.
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@alexandria @sir @j1mc Nonsense. Creating things that Might Not Work is how we learn! And programming is primarily theory building — which is to say, learning. You need to do a whole lot of learning about a system and its failure modes in order to write code that Will Definitely Work. (Which of course is usually a better idea to run in production.)

@kragen @sir @j1mc I mean, you're right, but not when it concerns other people's lives and data.

@alexandria @sir @j1mc yeah, people need to be able to choose how much risk they want to take with their own lives and data. when you're entrusted with someone else's life or data, you need to act responsibly with it.

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